The only way I can think to describe zaqstoner is as an experimental YouTuber.
Posting videos to the platform for 7 years, he has truly found his own over the past year or so by making his own type of video that turns typical YouTube conventions on their head. Zaq embraces his ever-growing interests by incorporating multiple topics, techniques, and ideas throughout his channel and even within each video. A “typical” zaqstoner video can flow between a tutorial for something he is also learning, stream-of-consciousness musings about experimental art, playing around with new types of media, and segments made solely to make himself laugh. He’s not just an experimental YouTuber in his techniques, but in how he is constantly redefining how varied a channel can be on the platform. With his work, the only thing guaranteed to be consistent is zaq and his creativity.
My first exposure to zastoner’s work, as was many others, was through finding his How to Datamosh video. The video opens not with any basic tutorial explanations, but this guy (zaqstoner) laying on his couch, talking about his thoughts on social media. I would soon find out that this video was not a typical tutorial, and zaqstoner was not a typical YouTuber. While yes, the video did in fact teach me how to datamosh, I was more interested by how much of zaq’s personality, process, and thinking was put throughout each of his videos. And personally, I admired how his videos seemed to be a reflection of him & his interests, like when his best editing tip(s) video also included a Runescape tutorial, a scene filmed on a Nintendo 3DS, and an unmentioned reference to Owen Wilson’s Yeah Right skateboarding clip. I saw someone who was making the kind of video they wanted to make, and I became a zaqstoner fan immediately.
This is all to say I found zaqstoner’s videos immensely entertaining and creatively inspiring, so I was extremely happy when he agreed to sit down and speak with me. Please enjoy our conversation about making art for yourself, creating content vs art on YouTube, being okay with learning, and remembering that it’s all “just for fun.”
The only way I can think to describe zaqstoner is as an experimental YouTuber.
Posting videos to the platform for 7 years, he has truly found his own over the past year or so by making his own type of video that turns typical YouTube conventions on their head. Zaq embraces his ever-growing interests by incorporating multiple topics, techniques, and ideas throughout his channel and even within each video. A “typical” zaqstoner video can flow between a tutorial for something he is also learning, stream-of-consciousness musings about experimental art, playing around with new types of media, and segments made solely to make himself laugh. He’s not just an experimental YouTuber in his techniques, but in how he is constantly redefining how varied a channel can be on the platform. With his work, the only thing guaranteed to be consistent is zaq and his creativity.
My first exposure to zastoner’s work, as was many others, was through finding his How to Datamosh video. The video opens not with any basic tutorial explanations, but this guy (zaqstoner) laying on his couch, talking about his thoughts on social media. I would soon find out that this video was not a typical tutorial, and zaqstoner was not a typical YouTuber. While yes, the video did in fact teach me how to datamosh, I was more interested by how much of zaq’s personality, process, and thinking was put throughout each of his videos. And personally, I admired how his videos seemed to be a reflection of him & his interests, like when his best editing tip(s) video also included a Runescape tutorial, a scene filmed on a Nintendo 3DS, and an unmentioned reference to Owen Wilson’s Yeah Right skateboarding clip. I saw someone who was making the kind of video they wanted to make, and I became a zaqstoner fan immediately.
This is all to say I found zaqstoner’s videos immensely entertaining and creatively inspiring, so I was extremely happy when he agreed to sit down and speak with me. Please enjoy our conversation about making art for yourself, creating content vs art on YouTube, being okay with learning, and remembering that it’s all “just for fun.”
Editor's note: zaqstoner's responses have been stylized in all lowercase by the artist's request.
Elicit
Would you like to introduce yourself and how you got into making art?
Elicit
Would you like to introduce yourself and how you got into making art?
zaq
Yeah, definitely. My name is Zach. My YouTube name is zaqstoner with a Q. My name is not actually spelled like that, so I don't want everyone to get the idea that my name is actually Zaq, it's “Z-A-C-H,” like a normal person, the way to spell it, but my stage name is “Z-A-Q.”
And I guess I would consider myself an experimental filmmaker, but by passion, by hobby more than anything. Professionally, I'm just an assistant editor working on commercials here in Los Angeles. So similar in spirit—or I guess in actual tactility, but not in spirit. Very opposite in spirit.
Yeah, so I've been creating experimental stuff… I guess experimental stuff in the truest form probably for about a year. I went to Ohio University for film, I graduated in 2018, and my senior year, I took some experimental film there, and I also had maybe the good opportunity to work at the Athens International Film Festival, which is [an] animation and experimental film focused film festival in Southeastern Ohio. And so, I think as a result of that, I got exposed to a lot of experimental film that I otherwise would not have. And that really got the gears going, but I wouldn't consider myself an experimental filmmaker at that time. I was very much a traditional filmmaker.
And then I moved to LA as soon as I graduated and started working in the actual industry. First on the production side, [I was] in the production side for four years and then I moved to post. And I think in that time, I just sort of became disillusioned by “traditional filmmaking,” just by seeing what it actually entails. Like, it's incredibly cost prohibitive, and I think the fantasy of what making traditional films actually is—like the fantasy of it is like, “Oh, you'll go to LA and you'll get to make a movie.” Or that's the dream, right? You work towards that one day. But the reality is like 4 people get to do that, and even they are incredibly swayed by, you know, the financiers or whatever. And it costs a lot of money to make a movie. And even if you can do it for cheap, it takes a lot of time and a lot of money and it takes a lot of people. And that, I think, ultimately was the thing that really drew me to experimental film and experimental animation, is that I could do it for pretty much free and I could do it by myself.
And so I kind of have gravitated towards that. Especially in the last year or so, I feel like I've really dove into that. Because I've been making YouTube videos for a long time now, but I don't think I would consider them necessarily “experimental.” I guess actually you could consider them experimental in that they're… If there were to be a “zaqstoner style” or whatever, it's just literally whatever nonsense, like non-sequitur things I've been thinking about at any given time, just smashed together. So in that way, I guess that's experimental because it's not like the traditional form factor of a YouTube video.
But I think I've just kind of been pulled in that direction as a result of it being the most fun, and just coming to terms with the fact that I'm doing all this for fun at the end of the day. I'm very fortunate in that I get to do my video creation as a hobby and I can support myself with my regular job. And so, YouTube has kind of been the outlet for that. And I know that [one of your] questions was like, “What does it mean to be ‘on YouTube?’” or whatever, and I definitely think like we can circle back to that. But I think YouTube, just for me in this point in my life, is like the perfect combination of the things I like about traditional filmmaking and I can fully remove all the things I don't like about it. And so, it was just this perfect crossroads of like, “I can just do whatever I want and [there will] still be people that will watch it. [laughs] But yeah, I think that's me. That's me in a nutshell.
zaq
Yeah, definitely. My name is Zach. My YouTube name is zaqstoner with a Q. My name is not actually spelled like that, so I don't want everyone to get the idea that my name is actually Zaq, it's “Z-A-C-H,” like a normal person, the way to spell it, but my stage name is “Z-A-Q.”
And I guess I would consider myself an experimental filmmaker, but by passion, by hobby more than anything. Professionally, I'm just an assistant editor working on commercials here in Los Angeles. So similar in spirit—or I guess in actual tactility, but not in spirit. Very opposite in spirit.
Yeah, so I've been creating experimental stuff… I guess experimental stuff in the truest form probably for about a year. I went to Ohio University for film, I graduated in 2018, and my senior year, I took some experimental film there, and I also had maybe the good opportunity to work at the Athens International Film Festival, which is [an] animation and experimental film focused film festival in Southeastern Ohio. And so, I think as a result of that, I got exposed to a lot of experimental film that I otherwise would not have. And that really got the gears going, but I wouldn't consider myself an experimental filmmaker at that time. I was very much a traditional filmmaker.
And then I moved to LA as soon as I graduated and started working in the actual industry. First on the production side, [I was] in the production side for four years and then I moved to post. And I think in that time, I just sort of became disillusioned by “traditional filmmaking,” just by seeing what it actually entails. Like, it's incredibly cost prohibitive, and I think the fantasy of what making traditional films actually is—like the fantasy of it is like, “Oh, you'll go to LA and you'll get to make a movie.” Or that's the dream, right? You work towards that one day. But the reality is like 4 people get to do that, and even they are incredibly swayed by, you know, the financiers or whatever. And it costs a lot of money to make a movie. And even if you can do it for cheap, it takes a lot of time and a lot of money and it takes a lot of people. And that, I think, ultimately was the thing that really drew me to experimental film and experimental animation, is that I could do it for pretty much free and I could do it by myself.
And so I kind of have gravitated towards that. Especially in the last year or so, I feel like I've really dove into that. Because I've been making YouTube videos for a long time now, but I don't think I would consider them necessarily “experimental.” I guess actually you could consider them experimental in that they're… If there were to be a “zaqstoner style” or whatever, it's just literally whatever nonsense, like non-sequitur things I've been thinking about at any given time, just smashed together. So in that way, I guess that's experimental because it's not like the traditional form factor of a YouTube video.
But I think I've just kind of been pulled in that direction as a result of it being the most fun, and just coming to terms with the fact that I'm doing all this for fun at the end of the day. I'm very fortunate in that I get to do my video creation as a hobby and I can support myself with my regular job. And so, YouTube has kind of been the outlet for that. And I know that [one of your] questions was like, “What does it mean to be ‘on YouTube?’” or whatever, and I definitely think like we can circle back to that. But I think YouTube, just for me in this point in my life, is like the perfect combination of the things I like about traditional filmmaking and I can fully remove all the things I don't like about it. And so, it was just this perfect crossroads of like, “I can just do whatever I want and [there will] still be people that will watch it. [laughs] But yeah, I think that's me. That's me in a nutshell.
zaqstoner combines his thoughts, process, and interests into How to Datamosh, his most popular video and a prime example of the “zaqstoner style.” Courtesy of zaqstoner.
zaqstoner combines his thoughts, process, and interests into How to Datamosh, his most popular video and a prime example of the “zaqstoner style.” Courtesy of zaqstoner.
I don't know how else to describe it but experimental in that I'm literally just like, “All right, let's see what happens.”
I don't know how else to describe it but experimental in that I'm literally just like, “All right, let's see what happens.”
Elicit
Yeah, also me saying “experimental” as a label I feel kind of also is a little bit counter-intuitive to the idea of it, so if I ever use that and it’s not…
Elicit
Yeah, also me saying “experimental” as a label I feel kind of also is a little bit counter-intuitive to the idea of it, so if I ever use that and it’s not…
zaq
No, because I was thinking about this. I think I would consider myself an “experimental filmmaker.” When I think of experimental film, I think actually, probably before this year, I would have thought of experimental film more as like the aesthetic. Like maybe someone says “experimental film,” my mind immediately jumps to a very specific, artistic vibe, right? But now I think about it more in the sense of—especially now that I've started fooling around with like Blender and After Effects and I literally don't know what I'm doing. And so, experimentation is how I would describe [it]. I'm literally just like, “Let's see what happens if we put these two things together.” So it's more like I don't know how else to describe it but experimental in that I'm literally just like, “All right, let's see what happens.”
And I guess then, less traditionally—and sort of I touched upon this just a second ago—my YouTube videos are definitely, I guess, experimental-adjacent just in that they're almost stream of consciousness. Like, if you're not into the kind of video that I make, I don't know what to tell you. [laughs] I'm under no fantasy that I'm making videos for everybody. Because I think there was a period of—and it comes back, I think, just because of how YouTube is—but there was a period where I was like, “I'm going to make YouTube videos that people like and I'm going to blow up on YouTube and I'm going to…” and then you just sort of do that and you're like, “This is not fun.” [laughs] “This is just like another job now.” And this was not supposed to be that. So I guess by saying, “I'm just going to make whatever I feel like making,” that, in a way, is experimental because it definitely doesn't fit what YouTube wants you to make as a YouTube creator. They definitely want you to just find your niche and stay just making the same thing. That's what their algorithm really rewards. I don't want to do that. It's really just not that fun for me. [laughs]
zaq
No, because I was thinking about this. I think I would consider myself an “experimental filmmaker.” When I think of experimental film, I think actually, probably before this year, I would have thought of experimental film more as like the aesthetic. Like maybe someone says “experimental film,” my mind immediately jumps to a very specific, artistic vibe, right? But now I think about it more in the sense of—especially now that I've started fooling around with like Blender and After Effects and I literally don't know what I'm doing. And so, experimentation is how I would describe [it]. I'm literally just like, “Let's see what happens if we put these two things together.” So it's more like I don't know how else to describe it but experimental in that I'm literally just like, “All right, let's see what happens.”
And I guess then, less traditionally—and sort of I touched upon this just a second ago—my YouTube videos are definitely, I guess, experimental-adjacent just in that they're almost stream of consciousness. Like, if you're not into the kind of video that I make, I don't know what to tell you. [laughs] I'm under no fantasy that I'm making videos for everybody. Because I think there was a period of—and it comes back, I think, just because of how YouTube is—but there was a period where I was like, “I'm going to make YouTube videos that people like and I'm going to blow up on YouTube and I'm going to…” and then you just sort of do that and you're like, “This is not fun.” [laughs] “This is just like another job now.” And this was not supposed to be that. So I guess by saying, “I'm just going to make whatever I feel like making,” that, in a way, is experimental because it definitely doesn't fit what YouTube wants you to make as a YouTube creator. They definitely want you to just find your niche and stay just making the same thing. That's what their algorithm really rewards. I don't want to do that. It's really just not that fun for me. [laughs]
Elicit
I think I had written down somewhere that I almost consider you as an “experimental YouTuber,” in the sense that you really do just [make] the things that you want to do and [try] out new things whenever you get interested in them. And I was really wondering, or I guess actually you already touched on that…
Elicit
I think I had written down somewhere that I almost consider you as an “experimental YouTuber,” in the sense that you really do just [make] the things that you want to do and [try] out new things whenever you get interested in them. And I was really wondering, or I guess actually you already touched on that…
zaq
I can touch upon it again. [laughs] I'm more than happy to be redundant in talking about this.
zaq
I can touch upon it again. [laughs] I'm more than happy to be redundant in talking about this.
Elicit
But I’m curious, how have you incorporated that idea of trying new things into your process? Because I know another thing you talk a lot about in your videos is trying new things even when you’re bad at them, or trying new things to be different from what everyone else is doing and really standing apart.
Elicit
But I’m curious, how have you incorporated that idea of trying new things into your process? Because I know another thing you talk a lot about in your videos is trying new things even when you’re bad at them, or trying new things to be different from what everyone else is doing and really standing apart.
zaq
I think, to be totally honest with you, it's nice when you frame it like, “Oh, I'm trying new things,” but really what it is that I'm very bad at sticking with things. [laughs] I just like to frame it like, “Oh, I'm just trying new things,” but really what it is is I'm very bad at staying with stuff. But I think that's why I found that video making has allowed me to have a home base in terms of the things that I'm trying. Like, “Oh, I'm trying this thing that I'm probably going to be interested in for like 3 weeks and then I'm going to be over it,” but if I can incorporate that into a video in some meaningful way, then it wasn't a waste, you know? It's still tying back into the thing that I am actually trying to be consistent with.
And so I think the form that I've sort of landed in, in terms of my videos, has kind of come about to allow me to navigate my life in that way. Because I think if I wasn't making videos and I was just trying new things, like a new thing every month or whatever, it's just like, “Oh, I'm just spending money on stuff and then losing interest.” So I think by having that throughline through everything, it doesn't feel like I'm just aimless in my pursuits.
zaq
I think, to be totally honest with you, it's nice when you frame it like, “Oh, I'm trying new things,” but really what it is that I'm very bad at sticking with things. [laughs] I just like to frame it like, “Oh, I'm just trying new things,” but really what it is is I'm very bad at staying with stuff. But I think that's why I found that video making has allowed me to have a home base in terms of the things that I'm trying. Like, “Oh, I'm trying this thing that I'm probably going to be interested in for like 3 weeks and then I'm going to be over it,” but if I can incorporate that into a video in some meaningful way, then it wasn't a waste, you know? It's still tying back into the thing that I am actually trying to be consistent with.
And so I think the form that I've sort of landed in, in terms of my videos, has kind of come about to allow me to navigate my life in that way. Because I think if I wasn't making videos and I was just trying new things, like a new thing every month or whatever, it's just like, “Oh, I'm just spending money on stuff and then losing interest.” So I think by having that throughline through everything, it doesn't feel like I'm just aimless in my pursuits.
Elicit
Yeah, they all have a home to live in after…
Elicit
Yeah, they all have a home to live in after…
zaq
Yeah, it feels a little more structured. Like, it's actually the video making that is my hobby, and then all the interests are just fuel and just topics for the videos. But even that, sometimes I'm like, “I kind of just want to do this and not make a video about it,” which is an interesting... [laughs] Sometimes I'm like, “I don't want to make a video about it,” but I think I've gotten better at just incorporating the parts that I—because I think there was a time where I was like, “I'm going to document everything, I'm going to be very true to the ‘I'm making a video about this thing.’” I think that lately I'm just like, “I'm just going to film the parts that I want to film and if something's left out then it's left out.”
zaq
Yeah, it feels a little more structured. Like, it's actually the video making that is my hobby, and then all the interests are just fuel and just topics for the videos. But even that, sometimes I'm like, “I kind of just want to do this and not make a video about it,” which is an interesting... [laughs] Sometimes I'm like, “I don't want to make a video about it,” but I think I've gotten better at just incorporating the parts that I—because I think there was a time where I was like, “I'm going to document everything, I'm going to be very true to the ‘I'm making a video about this thing.’” I think that lately I'm just like, “I'm just going to film the parts that I want to film and if something's left out then it's left out.”
Elicit
Yeah, I really like how you put that, how it’s the fuel for the output that you do.
Elicit
Yeah, I really like how you put that, how it’s the fuel for the output that you do.
zaq
Thanks. Yeah, I've really reverse engineered a justification for my, [laughs] for my scattered brain.
zaq
Thanks. Yeah, I've really reverse engineered a justification for my, [laughs] for my scattered brain.
Elicit
That also reminds me, one of the special qualities that I really see in a lot of your videos is how much of your process and your thinking that you include within the final work. And I’m curious, what drew you to wanting to share so much of your process of making the video in the actual final video?
Elicit
That also reminds me, one of the special qualities that I really see in a lot of your videos is how much of your process and your thinking that you include within the final work. And I’m curious, what drew you to wanting to share so much of your process of making the video in the actual final video?
zaq
That’s a very, very excellent question. I think it's probably a two-part answer. Two things that are at play. One is that something that I don't like about traditional filmmaking is that it takes a long time. And sometimes I feel very emotional or I have a big emotional idea. And I feel with a lot of other art forms, like songwriting or painting or any of those things, when you feel the emotion, you can translate that into your art, it's like an immediate one to one. But with filmmaking, since it takes so long, I'm like, “By the time the script is done and I get people together and make something, I no longer feel as emotionally charged or whatever.” And so, it doesn't work very well as an emotional outlet in that way. But, making the videos in the way that I make them, it's literally just like, “Oh, I'm having a feeling about something. I'm just going to talk about that feeling, and then I'm going to sort of work backwards from that into a more digestible video.” I found that that is a good, fulfilling “artistic avenue” for me to navigate.
And then the other thing is that I started making videos—like more craft related videos—and something that people seemed to like was that I didn't know what I was doing the whole time. [laughs] And that was something that people seem to resonate with. It is like I'm showing how to do it, but at the same time, I'm also showing me figuring it out, which has the added benefit of I don't have to polish it as much. I'm literally just like, “This is me trying to figure out. If it works, it works, if it doesn't work, we're gonna try something else.”
And so I think… I don't know, I think also this is sort of where the “YouTuber brain” sort of rears its head a little bit, as much as I would like to say it doesn't, is that you sort of are like, “Okay, this is sort of an area that isn't really being done.” Like people do really well-done tutorials and people do like “I'm talking about myself stuff,” but there seems to be a little bit of an opening of like “I'm doing a tutorial and I'm also incorporating all this extra stuff,” which truthfully, I would have never thought was a recipe for success. I'm like, “If you want a tutorial, you don't want to listen to somebody yap. And if you want to listen to someone yap, you don't want to watch 25 minutes on how to do a point cloud.” But for some reason—and I honestly have no idea why—but the Datamosh video did very well. And I'm like, “Okay, so obviously people are interested in this thing that I have no…” Like, I wouldn't be able to do that video again. I wouldn't be able to, knowing what I know now, recreate this. I still don't know exactly why that [video did well]. But it just feels like that is just the natural, “If I were to just brain off, like, make a video,” that's what comes out. And so I think that's kind of why I show my process, because I'm like, “This is just the thing that is the most satisfying for me to document and craft.” And it has had the added benefit of people seeming to enjoy it or resonate with it or something. So I think that's been positive reinforcement or whatever.
But yeah, and it's taken me a long time to get to this point of feeling like, “Oh yeah, this is the kind of video I make or whatever.” So I guess that's the answer to your question. It's a very long-winded way to say that. I think it's just that's what feels right to me when I'm making a video. I think that's probably what it all boils down to.
zaq
That’s a very, very excellent question. I think it's probably a two-part answer. Two things that are at play. One is that something that I don't like about traditional filmmaking is that it takes a long time. And sometimes I feel very emotional or I have a big emotional idea. And I feel with a lot of other art forms, like songwriting or painting or any of those things, when you feel the emotion, you can translate that into your art, it's like an immediate one to one. But with filmmaking, since it takes so long, I'm like, “By the time the script is done and I get people together and make something, I no longer feel as emotionally charged or whatever.” And so, it doesn't work very well as an emotional outlet in that way. But, making the videos in the way that I make them, it's literally just like, “Oh, I'm having a feeling about something. I'm just going to talk about that feeling, and then I'm going to sort of work backwards from that into a more digestible video.” I found that that is a good, fulfilling “artistic avenue” for me to navigate.
And then the other thing is that I started making videos—like more craft related videos—and something that people seemed to like was that I didn't know what I was doing the whole time. [laughs] And that was something that people seem to resonate with. It is like I'm showing how to do it, but at the same time, I'm also showing me figuring it out, which has the added benefit of I don't have to polish it as much. I'm literally just like, “This is me trying to figure out. If it works, it works, if it doesn't work, we're gonna try something else.”
And so I think… I don't know, I think also this is sort of where the “YouTuber brain” sort of rears its head a little bit, as much as I would like to say it doesn't, is that you sort of are like, “Okay, this is sort of an area that isn't really being done.” Like people do really well-done tutorials and people do like “I'm talking about myself stuff,” but there seems to be a little bit of an opening of like “I'm doing a tutorial and I'm also incorporating all this extra stuff,” which truthfully, I would have never thought was a recipe for success. I'm like, “If you want a tutorial, you don't want to listen to somebody yap. And if you want to listen to someone yap, you don't want to watch 25 minutes on how to do a point cloud.” But for some reason—and I honestly have no idea why—but the Datamosh video did very well. And I'm like, “Okay, so obviously people are interested in this thing that I have no…” Like, I wouldn't be able to do that video again. I wouldn't be able to, knowing what I know now, recreate this. I still don't know exactly why that [video did well]. But it just feels like that is just the natural, “If I were to just brain off, like, make a video,” that's what comes out. And so I think that's kind of why I show my process, because I'm like, “This is just the thing that is the most satisfying for me to document and craft.” And it has had the added benefit of people seeming to enjoy it or resonate with it or something. So I think that's been positive reinforcement or whatever.
But yeah, and it's taken me a long time to get to this point of feeling like, “Oh yeah, this is the kind of video I make or whatever.” So I guess that's the answer to your question. It's a very long-winded way to say that. I think it's just that's what feels right to me when I'm making a video. I think that's probably what it all boils down to.
Whether it's a video editing tutorial, attempting to recover his lost hard drive data, or learning how to repair his bike, zaq’s process and learning is always at the forefront of his work. Image from How to be Bad at Something, courtesy of zaqstoner.
Whether it's a video editing tutorial, attempting to recover his lost hard drive data, or learning how to repair his bike, zaq’s process and learning is always at the forefront of his work. Image from How to be Bad at Something, courtesy of zaqstoner.
Elicit
Yeah, I think that was a good answer.
Elicit
Yeah, I think that was a good answer.
zaq
[laughs] I feel like I just started rambling a little bit, but that's...
zaq
[laughs] I feel like I just started rambling a little bit, but that's...
Elicit
That’s like half of what an interview is, so, it’s good. [laughs]
Elicit
That’s like half of what an interview is, so, it’s good. [laughs]
zaq
Yeah. My brain knew where it was going for a little bit, but then... [laughs]
zaq
Yeah. My brain knew where it was going for a little bit, but then... [laughs]
Elicit
No, I think it was well-put together, it was.
Elicit
No, I think it was well-put together, it was.
zaq
Okay. [laughs] But see, this is also how I make the videos too, is I just follow the id or whatever and whatever comes out at the end. Sometimes it's just like, “Oh yeah, there's going to be a CGI anime girl in the middle of this video.” And that's just... [both laugh]
zaq
Okay. [laughs] But see, this is also how I make the videos too, is I just follow the id or whatever and whatever comes out at the end. Sometimes it's just like, “Oh yeah, there's going to be a CGI anime girl in the middle of this video.” And that's just... [both laugh]
Elicit
I really enjoyed that video and how you did not address it at all.
Elicit
I really enjoyed that video and how you did not address it at all.
zaq
Well it's funny—and this is what's become kind of nice about this video format is that I was doing that animated girl thing first. I bought some assets and I was trying to animate all these [things], like the guy at the beginning I was trying to animate. And then I was like, “Okay, this is nonsense. I'm not going to do this anymore.” So I just shelved it. And then I was going to make this video about turning 30, and then I was like, “Well, I might as well put this in somewhere.” [laughs] And I also thought it was absolutely hilarious to just not address it at all. To just have it be, for some reason that to me was just so funny. And I was like, “Even if nobody else thinks this is funny, I think it's funny.” And I’ve already done all the work, so I might as well just include it.
That's like the point cloud video that I just did, there's a very quick throwaway gag of Sydney Sweeney in AR. And I had, without exaggeration, probably spent like 45 minutes making that just because I thought it would be funny, because I've been in a group chat where they were talking about it. I was like, “It would be so funny to make this into a 3D model.” But then it turned out to be way harder, like it took way longer than I thought it would. And then I learned just by accident that if you export from Blender a certain file type, your phone opens it as an AR, for some reason, iMessage just opens it as an AR thing. And I was like, “This is so funny. I have to just incorporate it.” But it was never the intention. [laughs]
And so that's just kind of been a nice side effect of my new way of making videos, is that I just happen to be doing these things that otherwise would just never be seen, and I can just add it. And it's funny to me. [laughs] And other people think that it's funny. And so that, you know, feels good.
zaq
Well it's funny—and this is what's become kind of nice about this video format is that I was doing that animated girl thing first. I bought some assets and I was trying to animate all these [things], like the guy at the beginning I was trying to animate. And then I was like, “Okay, this is nonsense. I'm not going to do this anymore.” So I just shelved it. And then I was going to make this video about turning 30, and then I was like, “Well, I might as well put this in somewhere.” [laughs] And I also thought it was absolutely hilarious to just not address it at all. To just have it be, for some reason that to me was just so funny. And I was like, “Even if nobody else thinks this is funny, I think it's funny.” And I’ve already done all the work, so I might as well just include it.
That's like the point cloud video that I just did, there's a very quick throwaway gag of Sydney Sweeney in AR. And I had, without exaggeration, probably spent like 45 minutes making that just because I thought it would be funny, because I've been in a group chat where they were talking about it. I was like, “It would be so funny to make this into a 3D model.” But then it turned out to be way harder, like it took way longer than I thought it would. And then I learned just by accident that if you export from Blender a certain file type, your phone opens it as an AR, for some reason, iMessage just opens it as an AR thing. And I was like, “This is so funny. I have to just incorporate it.” But it was never the intention. [laughs]
And so that's just kind of been a nice side effect of my new way of making videos, is that I just happen to be doing these things that otherwise would just never be seen, and I can just add it. And it's funny to me. [laughs] And other people think that it's funny. And so that, you know, feels good.
zaq sits on his couch alongside the CGI anime girl, included in turn thirty - have crisis but completely ignored. Courtesy of zazqstoner.
zaq sits on his couch alongside the CGI anime girl, included in turn thirty - have crisis but completely ignored. Courtesy of zazqstoner.
Elicit
Yeah, it’s really cool to hear about how your process can be a bit nonlinear, whether you’re working on something before and it ends up being the focus or just a small part of it. Or depending on [whether] you’re making a video and [it] maybe needs something, or you just incorporate all of your interests at the time in your video.
Elicit
Yeah, it’s really cool to hear about how your process can be a bit nonlinear, whether you’re working on something before and it ends up being the focus or just a small part of it. Or depending on [whether] you’re making a video and [it] maybe needs something, or you just incorporate all of your interests at the time in your video.
zaq
It is kind of funny to look back and watch older videos because they are sort of like a time capsule of all of the things that I was interested in in that moment. But it's also kind of funny, I don't think I could ever bring somebody else onto a project because it literally is that way the whole way through. Like, I will film one scene and then I will sit down and I will edit it and I will do all the things and I'm like, “What does this need?” and then I'll just shoot another bit of it. And I'm like, “If there was another person involved in this project, it would be maddening for them because I literally have no plan.” I mean, in my mind it exists as a plan, but so much of it is like, “I'll go back and I'll add a scene or something.” It would be impo—it wouldn't be impossible, I think I would just learn how to be better at planning ahead.
But I think so much of the way that I see the video, I need to see the foundation before I can even begin to see the rest of it. Which I'm sure is a skill that could be learned, but I'm like, “This works since it's just me by myself and I have an unlimited amount of time to work on the video, I might as well just do it in that way.” And it has the added benefit of me being able to just add whatever random things that I've picked up along the way.
zaq
It is kind of funny to look back and watch older videos because they are sort of like a time capsule of all of the things that I was interested in in that moment. But it's also kind of funny, I don't think I could ever bring somebody else onto a project because it literally is that way the whole way through. Like, I will film one scene and then I will sit down and I will edit it and I will do all the things and I'm like, “What does this need?” and then I'll just shoot another bit of it. And I'm like, “If there was another person involved in this project, it would be maddening for them because I literally have no plan.” I mean, in my mind it exists as a plan, but so much of it is like, “I'll go back and I'll add a scene or something.” It would be impo—it wouldn't be impossible, I think I would just learn how to be better at planning ahead.
But I think so much of the way that I see the video, I need to see the foundation before I can even begin to see the rest of it. Which I'm sure is a skill that could be learned, but I'm like, “This works since it's just me by myself and I have an unlimited amount of time to work on the video, I might as well just do it in that way.” And it has the added benefit of me being able to just add whatever random things that I've picked up along the way.
Elicit
I think going off of that, with you saying with YouTube videos you kind of have an unlimited amount of time and with just you working on them, it’s kind of your own pet project that you can really work on. I guess do you have any other thoughts on either the freedom that making videos online gives you, or do you feel like maybe at times it’s not very freeing?
Elicit
I think going off of that, with you saying with YouTube videos you kind of have an unlimited amount of time and with just you working on them, it’s kind of your own pet project that you can really work on. I guess do you have any other thoughts on either the freedom that making videos online gives you, or do you feel like maybe at times it’s not very freeing?
YouTube is a little bit like a trap. But in every other way, it's so freeing because you can just make whatever you want and there's a chance that people will watch it. Like, that's incredible.
YouTube is a little bit like a trap. But in every other way, it's so freeing because you can just make whatever you want and there's a chance that people will watch it. Like, that's incredible.
zaq
I think I have been trying to be very intentional about being like, “This is just for fun. This is just for fun. This is just for fun.” Because especially with YouTube, and I don't know… I'm very resistant to making vertical content—so be it Shorts or TikToks or Instagram or whatever—just because I don't want to be on those platforms more than anything. YouTube is the only thing that I'm like, “I like YouTube. I'm not going to give it up.” I'm like, “I will watch four one-hour long videos before I watch a single Short.” [laughs]
But YouTube really, really, really, really just by the way that it's designed, wants you to fall into the “make content for them” trap. Like it's very gamified. It gives you analytics that are absolutely insane. And even I go into it every single time like, “This is just for fun. I'm not trying to make money. I don't care if lots of people watch it.” But very quickly it just turns into lizard brain and you're like, “Number goes up.” And it's very hard, even trying to be mindful about it, just so quickly, you're like, “Why did this video not do as good as the other video?” And even though I'm like, “Well, you made this video dumb on purpose, like it's not gonna…” but it's so hard because I go into it all like “Rah, rah, I'm making this for me, I don't give a shit if anybody likes it,” and then nobody watches it and you kind of feel bad. And then it's like, “Okay, well, that was literally the point.”
And so I think in that way, you just have to constantly keep your head on a swivel because it is tough. Especially with the datamoshing one, that one did well, and I don't know why it did well. And as soon as you have a video that does kind of well—and obviously I've never had a video do that well, but I've had videos do significantly better than all the other ones—when that happens, it's really hard to not try to repeat that. So in that way, YouTube is a little bit like a trap. But in every other way, it's so freeing because you can just make whatever you want and there's a chance that people will watch it. Like, that's incredible. And as much as I hate the algorithm and how it seems to change every single day—just as an audience member, just as someone who watches YouTube, it's incredibly frustrating to me that some days it's really good and some days it's bad.
But it is nice to have people that would like my content be able to see my content. I don't think there's any other time in history where that was something that could happen, where you could just find an audience, especially when you're making weird experimental stuff. Because even having been in the experimental festival circle for a little bit, that is just so limiting. Not limiting, but it adds a seriousness to it, like a weight that you don't really have when you make a YouTube video. And I think that's one of the things that's really nice for me as a creator, is that I am much more inclined to just like, “All right, get this done and we'll put it out and then we'll start on the next one.” Whereas with festival stuff, it feels a little more serious. And so you're like, “Okay, I'm going to work on this for a year or whatever.” And then after a year, you've made one thing. And I think that's hard—especially for me, I'm trying to always learn. Because there's so much learning to be done, especially when you get into some of the more complicated softwares like Blender and stuff, learning is so important. But even in just like traditional filmmaking, there's so much to learn about editing and things like that. So to be limited to one video or movie or whatever a year, I think is a disservice.
And so being able to just make something and then immediately put it online and move on to the next thing, I think is very fulfilling as a creative. And also, you kind of get out of your own head a little bit because the weight of each one is less. Like, “Oh, if I make 20 videos and one of them is bad, that's not as significant as making like 2 videos and one of them being bad, just like proportionally.” And I think filmmaking, video making, you really learn so much just by completing the project. If you just start a project and don't finish it, I think you miss out on learning so much. And so in that way, YouTube has been really great because it really just allows you to be like, “Okay, this is done, here it is. People, if you want to see it, see it.”
But yeah, it is very hard to stay [pauses] grounded, I guess. Because [YouTube] really wants you to make weekly content and find a niche because it just has so many incentives. Especially with that datamosh video, I met all the criteria to start making ads, AdSense or whatever. And so, I've made like $100, which is not that much money, but it is 100 more dollars than I've ever made on anything I've ever created in my life. So it's suddenly like, “That is kind of cool.” But I don't want… There's like a little devil on my shoulder that's like, “You could be making money doing this.”
But I think, I don't know, I'm in a position right now where I'm not getting any offers and I'm not making a lot of money. So it's very easy for me to be like, “Don't sell out, stay true to yourself. If BetterHelp comes knocking on your door, don't take it.” And it's very easy for me to say that because they're not. [laughs] But if they come to me and they're like, “Hey, you run an ad on your video and we'll give you X amount of dollars,” it's a really interesting, like, philosophical question I find myself thinking about a lot. I would like to believe that I'd be like, “No.” But I'm making the videos anyway, so there's a part of me that's like, “Get the bag,” or whatever. But then I think it just so quickly becomes like a job. And I really don't want it to be a job, because I think that I already have a job, so I'm like, “This is just for fun.”
zaq
I think I have been trying to be very intentional about being like, “This is just for fun. This is just for fun. This is just for fun.” Because especially with YouTube, and I don't know… I'm very resistant to making vertical content—so be it Shorts or TikToks or Instagram or whatever—just because I don't want to be on those platforms more than anything. YouTube is the only thing that I'm like, “I like YouTube. I'm not going to give it up.” I'm like, “I will watch four one-hour long videos before I watch a single Short.” [laughs]
But YouTube really, really, really, really just by the way that it's designed, wants you to fall into the “make content for them” trap. Like it's very gamified. It gives you analytics that are absolutely insane. And even I go into it every single time like, “This is just for fun. I'm not trying to make money. I don't care if lots of people watch it.” But very quickly it just turns into lizard brain and you're like, “Number goes up.” And it's very hard, even trying to be mindful about it, just so quickly, you're like, “Why did this video not do as good as the other video?” And even though I'm like, “Well, you made this video dumb on purpose, like it's not gonna…” but it's so hard because I go into it all like “Rah, rah, I'm making this for me, I don't give a shit if anybody likes it,” and then nobody watches it and you kind of feel bad. And then it's like, “Okay, well, that was literally the point.”
And so I think in that way, you just have to constantly keep your head on a swivel because it is tough. Especially with the datamoshing one, that one did well, and I don't know why it did well. And as soon as you have a video that does kind of well—and obviously I've never had a video do that well, but I've had videos do significantly better than all the other ones—when that happens, it's really hard to not try to repeat that. So in that way, YouTube is a little bit like a trap. But in every other way, it's so freeing because you can just make whatever you want and there's a chance that people will watch it. Like, that's incredible. And as much as I hate the algorithm and how it seems to change every single day—just as an audience member, just as someone who watches YouTube, it's incredibly frustrating to me that some days it's really good and some days it's bad.
But it is nice to have people that would like my content be able to see my content. I don't think there's any other time in history where that was something that could happen, where you could just find an audience, especially when you're making weird experimental stuff. Because even having been in the experimental festival circle for a little bit, that is just so limiting. Not limiting, but it adds a seriousness to it, like a weight that you don't really have when you make a YouTube video. And I think that's one of the things that's really nice for me as a creator, is that I am much more inclined to just like, “All right, get this done and we'll put it out and then we'll start on the next one.” Whereas with festival stuff, it feels a little more serious. And so you're like, “Okay, I'm going to work on this for a year or whatever.” And then after a year, you've made one thing. And I think that's hard—especially for me, I'm trying to always learn. Because there's so much learning to be done, especially when you get into some of the more complicated softwares like Blender and stuff, learning is so important. But even in just like traditional filmmaking, there's so much to learn about editing and things like that. So to be limited to one video or movie or whatever a year, I think is a disservice.
And so being able to just make something and then immediately put it online and move on to the next thing, I think is very fulfilling as a creative. And also, you kind of get out of your own head a little bit because the weight of each one is less. Like, “Oh, if I make 20 videos and one of them is bad, that's not as significant as making like 2 videos and one of them being bad, just like proportionally.” And I think filmmaking, video making, you really learn so much just by completing the project. If you just start a project and don't finish it, I think you miss out on learning so much. And so in that way, YouTube has been really great because it really just allows you to be like, “Okay, this is done, here it is. People, if you want to see it, see it.”
But yeah, it is very hard to stay [pauses] grounded, I guess. Because [YouTube] really wants you to make weekly content and find a niche because it just has so many incentives. Especially with that datamosh video, I met all the criteria to start making ads, AdSense or whatever. And so, I've made like $100, which is not that much money, but it is 100 more dollars than I've ever made on anything I've ever created in my life. So it's suddenly like, “That is kind of cool.” But I don't want… There's like a little devil on my shoulder that's like, “You could be making money doing this.”
But I think, I don't know, I'm in a position right now where I'm not getting any offers and I'm not making a lot of money. So it's very easy for me to be like, “Don't sell out, stay true to yourself. If BetterHelp comes knocking on your door, don't take it.” And it's very easy for me to say that because they're not. [laughs] But if they come to me and they're like, “Hey, you run an ad on your video and we'll give you X amount of dollars,” it's a really interesting, like, philosophical question I find myself thinking about a lot. I would like to believe that I'd be like, “No.” But I'm making the videos anyway, so there's a part of me that's like, “Get the bag,” or whatever. But then I think it just so quickly becomes like a job. And I really don't want it to be a job, because I think that I already have a job, so I'm like, “This is just for fun.”
Elicit
Yeah, I feel like YouTube is such a weird situation where it has everything set up for it to be a place of experimentation and global sharing and a place to sustain a bunch of art. But also, the way that everything is set up currently and run is to, like you said, encourage one type of content making and the weekly videos, the Shorts. It’s set up ultimately to not have a lot of creativity, which is really sad.
Elicit
Yeah, I feel like YouTube is such a weird situation where it has everything set up for it to be a place of experimentation and global sharing and a place to sustain a bunch of art. But also, the way that everything is set up currently and run is to, like you said, encourage one type of content making and the weekly videos, the Shorts. It’s set up ultimately to not have a lot of creativity, which is really sad.
zaq
Right. It really is. And the thing that's hardest for me to grapple with really is that you're doing free labor for a multi-billion dollar corporation, like something deeply about that. It's unsettling a little bit because it's like, this is the thing that I love to do and I would be doing it to nobody. But the knowledge that somebody is making money off of it is a little bit like, I would like to see some of that money. And I guess in a certain way I am, I'm getting like 12 cents a video or something. [laughs] So it's worth it.
But yeah, it is very strange, especially now that I've broken through to the YouTube Partner or whatever, you sort of see like, “Oh, you can tip somebody on YouTube and give them money,” but you only get 70% of that or something. YouTube takes 30% off of the top. And it's like, that's crazy. It's somebody like, “I like you as a creator, I'm going to give you money.” And then the platform is like, “We get 30% of that,” which is just, I don't know, something about that just seems so devious.
So I don't know, but I think that the truth of the matter is—I mean, I thought long and hard about it because I was like, “Maybe I could just host my own videos or something and not be on YouTube completely. And the reality is that that is not sustainable, it's just so inhibitive to host videos. And also the reality is I want people to be able to see what I make, to just make stuff into a vacuum eventually is hard. As much as I'm like “I'm making these videos for me,” it does feel good to have people watch your videos and say like, “Oh, I like this,” or “This was cool,” whatever. Or even like this, you being like, “Hey, I want to talk to you,” that's really cool because it is something that I care about a lot. And if I was just making videos to the void, I would just, I would have nobody to talk to about it. [laughs]
Elicit
Right. It really is. And the thing that's hardest for me to grapple with really is that you're doing free labor for a multi-billion dollar corporation, like something deeply about that. It's unsettling a little bit because it's like, this is the thing that I love to do and I would be doing it to nobody. But the knowledge that somebody is making money off of it is a little bit like, I would like to see some of that money. And I guess in a certain way I am, I'm getting like 12 cents a video or something. [laughs] So it's worth it.
But yeah, it is very strange, especially now that I've broken through to the YouTube Partner or whatever, you sort of see like, “Oh, you can tip somebody on YouTube and give them money,” but you only get 70% of that or something. YouTube takes 30% off of the top. And it's like, that's crazy. It's somebody like, “I like you as a creator, I'm going to give you money.” And then the platform is like, “We get 30% of that,” which is just, I don't know, something about that just seems so devious.
So I don't know, but I think that the truth of the matter is—I mean, I thought long and hard about it because I was like, “Maybe I could just host my own videos or something and not be on YouTube completely. And the reality is that that is not sustainable, it's just so inhibitive to host videos. And also the reality is I want people to be able to see what I make, to just make stuff into a vacuum eventually is hard. As much as I'm like “I'm making these videos for me,” it does feel good to have people watch your videos and say like, “Oh, I like this,” or “This was cool,” whatever. Or even like this, you being like, “Hey, I want to talk to you,” that's really cool because it is something that I care about a lot. And if I was just making videos to the void, I would just, I would have nobody to talk to about it. [laughs]
turn thirty - have crisis opens with a lowpoly zaq floating in space, haunted by whispers to consume, purchase, and watch more short form content. The video tackles zaq’s struggle to make art on a monetized platform for made for content. Courtesy of zaqstoner.
turn thirty - have crisis opens with a lowpoly zaq floating in space, haunted by whispers to consume, purchase, and watch more short form content. The video tackles zaq’s struggle to make art on a monetized platform for made for content. Courtesy of zaqstoner.
Elicit
Yeah, I see how YouTube—the idea of YouTube—is kind of bad and not great for a lot of, [or] all of the involved parties maybe. But also, I’m trying not to have a bias in the fact that it’s because of this platform that I’ve discovered a lot of really cool creators. And it’s not “because of,” I don’t want to give thanks to the platform at all, I really want to say these creators are out here making really cool art and just wanting to [figure] out the best way as an audience member to also support the creators as opposed to just, I guess, feeding into the platform.
Elicit
Yeah, I see how YouTube—the idea of YouTube—is kind of bad and not great for a lot of, [or] all of the involved parties maybe. But also, I’m trying not to have a bias in the fact that it’s because of this platform that I’ve discovered a lot of really cool creators. And it’s not “because of,” I don’t want to give thanks to the platform at all, I really want to say these creators are out here making really cool art and just wanting to [figure] out the best way as an audience member to also support the creators as opposed to just, I guess, feeding into the platform.
zaq
Yeah, I think I've just come to accept it a little bit in that, like, yes, this is a terrible corporation that is definitely not looking out for the interests of anybody that makes stuff on their platform. Their main focus is just trying to keep audience retention or whatever. But like you're saying, I love being able to make stuff and show it to people. I love—literally the only thing that I watch is YouTube. I don't watch any, like I don't watch Netflix, I don't watch any of that stuff. Last night, I watched a two hour documentary on all of the interstellar messages we've sent into space. And I was like, “This is incredible. This is an amazing piece of media that you can just watch for free on the internet.” And so I've kind of just accepted that YouTube might be that unnecessary evil for now.
I do think for me, having been on the platform for a while and it being like, for lack of a better word, my reel, I guess, it's just like a portfolio of all the work that I've done. I think my bigger concern really is that something were to happen where YouTube goes the way Instagram went with photography. People that were really big into photography, Instagram was their app. And then one day they're like, “We're not going to do photography anymore, we're going to be a video centric platform,” and just how that upheaved that for those people. And I'm just like, what would YouTube—I mean, I don't know if I’m necessarily concerned about in the same way that happened to Instagram—but as YouTube tries harder and harder to push Shorts and stuff, I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm just constantly thankful that it is not my full-time job, I think that would be incredibly stressful. And I think when it becomes the full-time job of creators I like, there is obviously a shift that happens where they start to do the things that they have to do to get paid, which makes sense if it's your livelihood, but I do think the art takes a hit.
So I don't know. It's like one of those interesting things where sometimes people jokingly will ask me like, “Oh, are you going to do this full time one day?” I'm like, one, I'm very far away from doing that. $100 a year is not enough to live off of. [laughs] But also, like, I don't think I would. It's just so volatile that I can't imagine chasing trends in the way that you think you have to in order to stay financially afloat, especially if you're making art, because it is a great platform for that, but I don't know if it's a great platform to make money doing that. I think your best bet if you're somebody like that is that you have a Patreon and the people that really like your art support you independently from the structure of YouTube. But I think that probably comes with its own can of worms. But I'm not at the point right now where I'm trying to make any serious money off of what I'm doing. So I'm willing to overlook the evil practices of YouTube, maybe.
Elicit
Yeah, I think I've just come to accept it a little bit in that, like, yes, this is a terrible corporation that is definitely not looking out for the interests of anybody that makes stuff on their platform. Their main focus is just trying to keep audience retention or whatever. But like you're saying, I love being able to make stuff and show it to people. I love—literally the only thing that I watch is YouTube. I don't watch any, like I don't watch Netflix, I don't watch any of that stuff. Last night, I watched a two hour documentary on all of the interstellar messages we've sent into space. And I was like, “This is incredible. This is an amazing piece of media that you can just watch for free on the internet.” And so I've kind of just accepted that YouTube might be that unnecessary evil for now.
I do think for me, having been on the platform for a while and it being like, for lack of a better word, my reel, I guess, it's just like a portfolio of all the work that I've done. I think my bigger concern really is that something were to happen where YouTube goes the way Instagram went with photography. People that were really big into photography, Instagram was their app. And then one day they're like, “We're not going to do photography anymore, we're going to be a video centric platform,” and just how that upheaved that for those people. And I'm just like, what would YouTube—I mean, I don't know if I’m necessarily concerned about in the same way that happened to Instagram—but as YouTube tries harder and harder to push Shorts and stuff, I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm just constantly thankful that it is not my full-time job, I think that would be incredibly stressful. And I think when it becomes the full-time job of creators I like, there is obviously a shift that happens where they start to do the things that they have to do to get paid, which makes sense if it's your livelihood, but I do think the art takes a hit.
So I don't know. It's like one of those interesting things where sometimes people jokingly will ask me like, “Oh, are you going to do this full time one day?” I'm like, one, I'm very far away from doing that. $100 a year is not enough to live off of. [laughs] But also, like, I don't think I would. It's just so volatile that I can't imagine chasing trends in the way that you think you have to in order to stay financially afloat, especially if you're making art, because it is a great platform for that, but I don't know if it's a great platform to make money doing that. I think your best bet if you're somebody like that is that you have a Patreon and the people that really like your art support you independently from the structure of YouTube. But I think that probably comes with its own can of worms. But I'm not at the point right now where I'm trying to make any serious money off of what I'm doing. So I'm willing to overlook the evil practices of YouTube, maybe.
If nobody's going to watch, I might as well make the things that I want to make. And then, if somebody does watch, then that's a plus, really.
If nobody's going to watch, I might as well make the things that I want to make. And then, if somebody does watch, then that's a plus, really.
Elicit
I think in one of your recent videos, you talked about how you really just want to make niche work for a small group of people and [make] the work that you want to do, and I feel like that kind of comes out of it not being a full-time job?
Elicit
I think in one of your recent videos, you talked about how you really just want to make niche work for a small group of people and [make] the work that you want to do, and I feel like that kind of comes out of it not being a full-time job?
zaq
Yeah, exactly. I think I feel very thankful that I don't have to do this as my full-time job. And so I think I have to remind myself that I'm very privileged to be able to make weird dumb shit all the time and not have any consequences to that. So I'm like, “I might as well lean into that because who knows? Maybe one day I will have to do all the lame stuff that people do to make a living and I won't be able to make whatever I want to make.” But I [am just] constantly reminding myself, like, “This is for fun. This is for fun. You're doing this because you enjoy doing this. There's no other reason.”
And yeah, I think making stuff for everybody is when you make stuff that—truthfully, this is the reality of it, is that anytime that I've been like, “I'm going to make a video that people are going to want to watch, like I'm going to reverse engineer a good video,” it doesn't do well and I don't like the video. So I was like, “okay, this is a lose-lose.” I made sacrifices in what I enjoy making to achieve something that was not achieved. So I'm like, “If nobody's going to watch, I might as well make the things that I want to make. And then, if somebody does watch, then that's a plus, really.”
To make videos that you want people to watch is like… I don't think, at least for me, to do the, “Hey guys, it's Zach, welcome to my YouTube video,” it is very tempting, as I sort of talked about, because there are certain things that do lead to better results, but it's very soul crushing to do those things and them not lead to results.
Yeah, but I also think there's also a part of me that's like, “I want to make stuff that's kind of cool.” And just when I think of the traditional like, “Hey guys, it's Zach,” YouTube videos, if I was somebody else and I stumbled across that video, I wouldn't be like, “Wow, this is a really interesting person that I want to invest more time into.” But I feel like if I met somebody that was just making this stuff that they were interested in with absolutely no care for if the people like it, I think that would be more interesting to me as an outside observer.
Elicit
Yeah, exactly. I think I feel very thankful that I don't have to do this as my full-time job. And so I think I have to remind myself that I'm very privileged to be able to make weird dumb shit all the time and not have any consequences to that. So I'm like, “I might as well lean into that because who knows? Maybe one day I will have to do all the lame stuff that people do to make a living and I won't be able to make whatever I want to make.” But I [am just] constantly reminding myself, like, “This is for fun. This is for fun. You're doing this because you enjoy doing this. There's no other reason.”
And yeah, I think making stuff for everybody is when you make stuff that—truthfully, this is the reality of it, is that anytime that I've been like, “I'm going to make a video that people are going to want to watch, like I'm going to reverse engineer a good video,” it doesn't do well and I don't like the video. So I was like, “okay, this is a lose-lose.” I made sacrifices in what I enjoy making to achieve something that was not achieved. So I'm like, “If nobody's going to watch, I might as well make the things that I want to make. And then, if somebody does watch, then that's a plus, really.”
To make videos that you want people to watch is like… I don't think, at least for me, to do the, “Hey guys, it's Zach, welcome to my YouTube video,” it is very tempting, as I sort of talked about, because there are certain things that do lead to better results, but it's very soul crushing to do those things and them not lead to results.
Yeah, but I also think there's also a part of me that's like, “I want to make stuff that's kind of cool.” And just when I think of the traditional like, “Hey guys, it's Zach,” YouTube videos, if I was somebody else and I stumbled across that video, I wouldn't be like, “Wow, this is a really interesting person that I want to invest more time into.” But I feel like if I met somebody that was just making this stuff that they were interested in with absolutely no care for if the people like it, I think that would be more interesting to me as an outside observer.
Even if zaq is speaking directly to the camera, he is always doing so in an interesting and creative way. Image from My BEST Video Editing Tip(s), courtesy of zaqstoner.
Even if zaq is speaking directly to the camera, he is always doing so in an interesting and creative way. Image from My BEST Video Editing Tip(s), courtesy of zaqstoner.
Elicit
Definitely. Another question I was curious about, I remember in your datamoshing video you talked a lot about towards the end of it having intentionality within experimental art. And I think hearing what you had to say, you might have already touched on this, but what do you think your intentions are going forward with incorporating a lot of different mediums and styles?
Elicit
Definitely. Another question I was curious about, I remember in your datamoshing video you talked a lot about towards the end of it having intentionality within experimental art. And I think hearing what you had to say, you might have already touched on this, but what do you think your intentions are going forward with incorporating a lot of different mediums and styles?
zaq
[When] I was taking experimental film in school or whatever, I think that was the thing that really stuck with me, was this idea of the intentionality behind it is just as important, if not more important, than the final result. And I thought that was so fascinating because, especially when the experimental film is like a woman just put her period blood on the negative of the film and that's what it is. And so you're like, that's the actual film that you're watching is just like splotches being shown through a projector or whatever. But then when you know the whole stuff surrounding it, you're like, “Oh, that's actually more interesting just by the nature of that being an interesting thing.” And I think that was just so fascinating to me.
And so I think what that has kind of allowed me to do is, “I'm interested in a thing. I'm thinking about a thing. What does that look like in my head?” If I'm feeling an emotion or whatever, I'm like, “What does that look like or how could I represent that?” And then I sort of learn an experimental filmmaking technique as a result of that. And then I'm able to make a tutorial video about that. So it just sort of naturally lends itself to my process of being able to make a tutorial about something that I've just been fooling around [with]. But also, something that is interesting about it, I guess, is that using that process, it allows me to discover techniques that I otherwise would not have discovered, because I'm like, ”I have this vision in my head of what I want this thing to look like and I don't know how to accomplish that.” And so I have to go out and find out how to do that thing. And so it's kind of a nice way to force me to do the research and find out cool new things.
Especially because it's very tempting to just find a video of a cool effect and then just make a video about that effect on its own. And it's like, that person, that video already exists. But I found that if I start with my brain first and then try to find the effect, then you end up having to combine a bunch of interesting things in a new way, which I guess feels better than just recreating a tutorial that's already been made. And then it feels more fulfilling, maybe, and probably more sustainable for me as a creator—because on the one hand, I'm just making a tutorial, but on the other hand, it is scratching the itch of, “I'm making something that is more than just making a tutorial.” Because I don't think just making tutorial videos would be very fulfilling to me, just because it's so mechanical in nature, but by being like, “Oh, actually the reason that I'm doing any of this is because I'm feeling this about this thing,” makes it feel more meaningful to me.
Also what I've learned going forward is that I'm trying not to be inhibited by the “oh, this doesn't make any sense” part of my brain. Because I found that it's just so fun to be like, “Oh I think this part should be filmed on a Nintendo 3DS.” And that's it. [laughs] That's the extent of the meaning of that. And I'm just like, “It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't look very good. But I think this would be right.” And just sort of leaning into the, “That's the thing that makes it interesting.” Because one of the things that I find about myself when I watch other experimental film things is I'm like, “How did they think of that? Like, how did they come up with that?” Or like, you watch David Lynch or something. You're like, “How did, how did he come up with that idea?” And then I have an idea that seems so dumb and stupid. And I'm like, “Well, see, that's just like—not that I'm David Lynch or whatever—but it's the same, the difference is he just put it on a movie, and I'm like, ‘I don't know if that makes any sense.’” So I'm trying to lower my inhibitions about stuff. And most of the time it just leads to dumb things like the 3DS that looks bad and it sounds bad and doesn't make any sense. But I think for every, you know, nine of those things that don't make any sense and look bad, there's a chance that one of them will be good. And I think that's really interesting.
And, you know, like we were talking about a little bit ago, as a YouTuber you do want people to watch, and you do want to build an audience a little bit, even if that's not the goal. To have something that an audience member can expect from every video, even if my videos have nothing in common with one another, at least the thing that will be in common is that it's going to be just a roller coaster of random shit. And I think that is probably interesting as an audience member, or at least it would be interesting to me as an audience member.
Elicit
[When] I was taking experimental film in school or whatever, I think that was the thing that really stuck with me, was this idea of the intentionality behind it is just as important, if not more important, than the final result. And I thought that was so fascinating because, especially when the experimental film is like a woman just put her period blood on the negative of the film and that's what it is. And so you're like, that's the actual film that you're watching is just like splotches being shown through a projector or whatever. But then when you know the whole stuff surrounding it, you're like, “Oh, that's actually more interesting just by the nature of that being an interesting thing.” And I think that was just so fascinating to me.
And so I think what that has kind of allowed me to do is, “I'm interested in a thing. I'm thinking about a thing. What does that look like in my head?” If I'm feeling an emotion or whatever, I'm like, “What does that look like or how could I represent that?” And then I sort of learn an experimental filmmaking technique as a result of that. And then I'm able to make a tutorial video about that. So it just sort of naturally lends itself to my process of being able to make a tutorial about something that I've just been fooling around [with]. But also, something that is interesting about it, I guess, is that using that process, it allows me to discover techniques that I otherwise would not have discovered, because I'm like, ”I have this vision in my head of what I want this thing to look like and I don't know how to accomplish that.” And so I have to go out and find out how to do that thing. And so it's kind of a nice way to force me to do the research and find out cool new things.
Especially because it's very tempting to just find a video of a cool effect and then just make a video about that effect on its own. And it's like, that person, that video already exists. But I found that if I start with my brain first and then try to find the effect, then you end up having to combine a bunch of interesting things in a new way, which I guess feels better than just recreating a tutorial that's already been made. And then it feels more fulfilling, maybe, and probably more sustainable for me as a creator—because on the one hand, I'm just making a tutorial, but on the other hand, it is scratching the itch of, “I'm making something that is more than just making a tutorial.” Because I don't think just making tutorial videos would be very fulfilling to me, just because it's so mechanical in nature, but by being like, “Oh, actually the reason that I'm doing any of this is because I'm feeling this about this thing,” makes it feel more meaningful to me.
Also what I've learned going forward is that I'm trying not to be inhibited by the “oh, this doesn't make any sense” part of my brain. Because I found that it's just so fun to be like, “Oh I think this part should be filmed on a Nintendo 3DS.” And that's it. [laughs] That's the extent of the meaning of that. And I'm just like, “It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't look very good. But I think this would be right.” And just sort of leaning into the, “That's the thing that makes it interesting.” Because one of the things that I find about myself when I watch other experimental film things is I'm like, “How did they think of that? Like, how did they come up with that?” Or like, you watch David Lynch or something. You're like, “How did, how did he come up with that idea?” And then I have an idea that seems so dumb and stupid. And I'm like, “Well, see, that's just like—not that I'm David Lynch or whatever—but it's the same, the difference is he just put it on a movie, and I'm like, ‘I don't know if that makes any sense.’” So I'm trying to lower my inhibitions about stuff. And most of the time it just leads to dumb things like the 3DS that looks bad and it sounds bad and doesn't make any sense. But I think for every, you know, nine of those things that don't make any sense and look bad, there's a chance that one of them will be good. And I think that's really interesting.
And, you know, like we were talking about a little bit ago, as a YouTuber you do want people to watch, and you do want to build an audience a little bit, even if that's not the goal. To have something that an audience member can expect from every video, even if my videos have nothing in common with one another, at least the thing that will be in common is that it's going to be just a roller coaster of random shit. And I think that is probably interesting as an audience member, or at least it would be interesting to me as an audience member.
This scene filmed on a Nintendo 3DS does, in fact, not look very good. But I remember immediately loving this segment and connecting with zaq’s humor and creative style. Image from My BEST Video Editing Tip(s), courtesy of zaqstoner.
This scene filmed on a Nintendo 3DS does, in fact, not look very good. But I remember immediately loving this segment and connecting with zaq’s humor and creative style. Image from My BEST Video Editing Tip(s), courtesy of zaqstoner.
Elicit
Yeah, I liked diving into your YouTube channel and thinking about what through line might exist, and the throughline might be that there really isn’t one, other than you and you making the things that interest you. And I think there’s something special about that, especially on YouTube.
Elicit
Yeah, I liked diving into your YouTube channel and thinking about what through line might exist, and the throughline might be that there really isn’t one, other than you and you making the things that interest you. And I think there’s something special about that, especially on YouTube.
zaq
Thanks. Yeah, it's something I think about whenever my brain goes into like, “You need to do the things that you have to do to make popular YouTube videos.” Because the first and foremost thing that YouTube rewards is having a niche and having all your videos be consistent about a topic, because that's what somebody would subscribe for, that's why they would watch your videos. And I was like, “I don't want to do that.” And then I sort of [came] to the same conclusion I think that you just did, where it's like, “I guess I'm the through line? I'm the thing that all the videos have in common.” And so I guess I've been trying to lean into that a little bit more and just be like, “This is the zaqstoner telling of this version of whatever this is.” And I totally understand why somebody might watch it and be like, “I don't want to watch any more of these.” [laughs] But I think I've come to terms with being okay with that.
There is a little bit of, at least for me, where I'm like, “Get over yourself a little bit.” [laughs] Like, “oh, zaqstoner is the thing that people are watching for.” I'm like, okay, well… [laughs]
Elicit
Thanks. Yeah, it's something I think about whenever my brain goes into like, “You need to do the things that you have to do to make popular YouTube videos.” Because the first and foremost thing that YouTube rewards is having a niche and having all your videos be consistent about a topic, because that's what somebody would subscribe for, that's why they would watch your videos. And I was like, “I don't want to do that.” And then I sort of [came] to the same conclusion I think that you just did, where it's like, “I guess I'm the through line? I'm the thing that all the videos have in common.” And so I guess I've been trying to lean into that a little bit more and just be like, “This is the zaqstoner telling of this version of whatever this is.” And I totally understand why somebody might watch it and be like, “I don't want to watch any more of these.” [laughs] But I think I've come to terms with being okay with that.
There is a little bit of, at least for me, where I'm like, “Get over yourself a little bit.” [laughs] Like, “oh, zaqstoner is the thing that people are watching for.” I'm like, okay, well… [laughs]
Elicit
I do think your videos, when I watch them, it doesn’t come off as egotistical influencer at all.
Elicit
I do think your videos, when I watch them, it doesn’t come off as egotistical influencer at all.
zaq
Okay, that's good. [laughs] I think maybe I try very hard to not come across that way, even if there is a little part of me that is probably, [raises eyebrows] you know. I think it's human nature to be like, “yeah, I want people to watch my stuff, I want to do really well on Youtube, obviously,” but I think I'm trying to be very intentional about not coming across as like a “YouTuber.” Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just, I think what I'm setting out to do doesn't feel, it would feel disingenuous.
Elicit
Okay, that's good. [laughs] I think maybe I try very hard to not come across that way, even if there is a little part of me that is probably, [raises eyebrows] you know. I think it's human nature to be like, “yeah, I want people to watch my stuff, I want to do really well on Youtube, obviously,” but I think I'm trying to be very intentional about not coming across as like a “YouTuber.” Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just, I think what I'm setting out to do doesn't feel, it would feel disingenuous.
I think it becomes easier for me to accept it as “art” or “creative expression” or whatever when it's just truly unhinged.
I think it becomes easier for me to accept it as “art” or “creative expression” or whatever when it's just truly unhinged.
Elicit
Yeah, I think in your turn thirty - have crisis video you mentioned you were hesitant to not call what you’re making—you didn’t want to call it content and you were hesitant to call it art. But I do think, based on how I see it and a lot of the other [experimental YouTube videos] too, I kind of also see them as art and really creative expressions of what people are thinking, and how they’re able to put them into a video package is super interesting to me. And so you talking about content or art stood out to me.
Elicit
Yeah, I think in your turn thirty - have crisis video you mentioned you were hesitant to not call what you’re making—you didn’t want to call it content and you were hesitant to call it art. But I do think, based on how I see it and a lot of the other [experimental YouTube videos] too, I kind of also see them as art and really creative expressions of what people are thinking, and how they’re able to put them into a video package is super interesting to me. And so you talking about content or art stood out to me.
zaq
Yeah, thanks for saying that. [laughs] I think the reason I'm hesitant to call it art is because it still has characteristics that my brain associates with content. Like if I were to categorize art and content, my video still has some of, like, I'm just sitting and talking to the camera. There are aspects of it that I think I have a hard time moving into the other category. But I think it becomes easier for me to accept it as “art” or “creative expression” or whatever when it's just truly unhinged. Like, yes, it is me talking to the camera, but it's maybe a more raw expression of it, as opposed to making “content.”
But I don't know. When someone's like, “Oh, what kind of videos do you make?” I'm like, “I don't really know how to open this. [laughs] I don't really know. I don't know which one to show you first, and I don't know how to tell you.” Usually I just send people a datamoshing one because it's got a big number, and then people are more accepting of the other ones if they see one that did well. [laughs]
Elicit
Yeah, thanks for saying that. [laughs] I think the reason I'm hesitant to call it art is because it still has characteristics that my brain associates with content. Like if I were to categorize art and content, my video still has some of, like, I'm just sitting and talking to the camera. There are aspects of it that I think I have a hard time moving into the other category. But I think it becomes easier for me to accept it as “art” or “creative expression” or whatever when it's just truly unhinged. Like, yes, it is me talking to the camera, but it's maybe a more raw expression of it, as opposed to making “content.”
But I don't know. When someone's like, “Oh, what kind of videos do you make?” I'm like, “I don't really know how to open this. [laughs] I don't really know. I don't know which one to show you first, and I don't know how to tell you.” Usually I just send people a datamoshing one because it's got a big number, and then people are more accepting of the other ones if they see one that did well. [laughs]
Elicit
But I think there’s something about having a channel where you really don’t know which video to send to show someone what kind of videos you make. It’s kind of the whole package, look at it as a whole, but also, they’re all so different.
Elicit
But I think there’s something about having a channel where you really don’t know which video to send to show someone what kind of videos you make. It’s kind of the whole package, look at it as a whole, but also, they’re all so different.
zaq
Yeah, even the datamosh one, it's like, this is my most popular video, but it is 50% a tutorial on how to do something you'll probably never want to do, so [laughs]. It's just very, I don't know, it's kind of fun to be, I guess, maybe uncategor—uncategorizable? That can't be a word. Un… You know what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to think what the word would be for that. Uncategorized. Uncategor... doesn't matter. [both laugh]
But there is something fun to feel like, “Oh yeah, I have a mystique.” But then you watch one of the videos, you're like, “Uhhh, I don't know if mystique is how I would describe it.” [laughs] But no, thank you for saying that you think it is art-adjacent. That feels good. [both laugh]
Elicit
Yeah, even the datamosh one, it's like, this is my most popular video, but it is 50% a tutorial on how to do something you'll probably never want to do, so [laughs]. It's just very, I don't know, it's kind of fun to be, I guess, maybe uncategor—uncategorizable? That can't be a word. Un… You know what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to think what the word would be for that. Uncategorized. Uncategor... doesn't matter. [both laugh]
But there is something fun to feel like, “Oh yeah, I have a mystique.” But then you watch one of the videos, you're like, “Uhhh, I don't know if mystique is how I would describe it.” [laughs] But no, thank you for saying that you think it is art-adjacent. That feels good. [both laugh]
You can follow and support zaqstoner’s newest creative efforts on his YouTube channel. Thank you again for the wonderful conversation zaq, and thank you for reading!